Japanese Suffix? Don't use?

[fathskie]

Hello,,

I'm fathskie and I'm new :D

What made me registered here is because I want to ask you guys...

What made you decided not to use the japanese suffix? In this case especially I refer to beelzebub, probably there are other title which been translated without Japanese suffix like in example, -san, -sama, oni-san, aniki, etc

If I may ask, why did you decide to "westernized" everything instead of letting the manga have a bit of its original feeling? Have you discuss this with the reader, like creating a poll asking what translating style the readers would prefer most?

"Elder brother" instead of "aniki" (or oni-san?? or oni-chan?? those two are different, eventhough English don't know the different between oni-san and aniki, but if it's left in Japanese it left different feel to it)

Please kindly reply to my feedback, because I, for one, like things better with the original Japanese suffix. In example, "Mr. Kanzaki" can be "read" as "Kanzaki-san" or "Kanzaki-sama", I wouldn't know which though.


Thank you!
-fath

[Vargouille]

I believe that was Trip's (the translator for Beelzebub, if memory serves) decision.

[Riezt2011]

I agree with Varg, we have to respect the Translator and PR decision.

[the p-man 2]

Its called cultural difference. This suffixes have been in all types of manga ever since scanlations started.
Please respect some parts of the Japanese culture as do the people in RHS respect yours.

[Runte]

It was Shadow-Skill. Not RH. Shadow-Skill had a policy not to use Japanese suffix or Japanese words. I think Trip just wanted to continue that since SS was pretty long the translator. If it was me, I'd leave all the suffix as they are and RH'd probably release it like that as well.

So, answer to your question "why": No real reason. Ask SS "why" he doesn't use the suffix.

[2T_K]

It's English, not Japanese, did you John (maybe your friend) as "John-san"?
These suffix are suitable for Japanese, so I agree that SS didn't use them xD

[epokreign]

As Runte stated, it was Shadow-skill's decision to leave out the honorifics in his translations. Our new translator, Triplicate, has decided to keep the consistency of the translations for the series by adopting S-s's style, to keep everything familiarized for the long time audience. This is not a Red Hawk policy. The group gives the translators control over their translation, and there is no universal style that we dictate to anyone who translates for us. As a proofreader, I defer to the translators on matters of localization, but offer suggestions when necessary.

Suffice to say, this matter has always been a point of contention in the community. No one on either side of the "localization" conundrum can say who is "right" or "wrong," because it really is, ultimately, a matter of taste and, as you said, preference. The translators have their own individual preferences, and it is up to their discretion how much they localize something, usually to the consternation of those on either side of the issue (the whole "weeaboo" tug-of-war comes to mind).

Keep in mind, though, that we are trying our best to bring this to an English-speaking audience. In the words of 8thsin, a respected fansub translator, "the whole point of translation is localizing a foreign language into an understandable form in the native language."

[Triplicate]

Sup.

I was told specifically by Shadow-skill to remove all suffixes or translate them into english equivalents in Beel. And although I was told to do so, I've gotten the feeling that it seems much more natural to read without the suffixes, as when I read manga I feel that it kinda messes up the rhythm involved in the english language. A bit hard to explain, but if anyone knows what I'm talking about...

Anyways I translate Beel without suffixes and I'm beginning to like how that's going, while I translate GE with suffixes because that was a plot point at one point. It's definitely just up to the TL and PR. Epok said everything else better than I could've. Hope that helped.

[RennanNT]

No one on either side of the "localization" conundrum can say who is "right" or "wrong," because it really is, ultimately, a matter of taste and, as you said, preference.

I believe the matter is much more about the reader's knowledge about the suffix rather than taste/preference.

The suffix holds a lot of information about the relationship and the tone of the talk, but unfortunately that info can't be precisely translated to english and sometimes they have to be replaced because the litteral translation doesn't fit there.
If the reader doesn't know about the suffix, is just really annoying to try remember them. (what happened to me when i tried a korean manhwa in the beginning)
But if the reader understand them, they will prefer suffix to have a better understanding.

Exemples of where info is lost:
Sensei - if not show what is his/her profession somehow, the translator have to guess if its a doctor or teacher or leave no info until it being explained.
The so many different forms to call big brother (onii-chan, onii-sama, aniki, aniue, ...), each one with different feelings about closeness, respect, admiration, fear, rudeness, hierarchy, etc. It applys to teacher too (Shifu, Shishou, Sensei, Master, ...) and to the various types of master (bou-chan, waka, Shishou, Goshujin-sama, oyakata-sama, master, ...)
Sempai need to be replaced by the name of the person, the use of onee/onii to not siblings can be confusing sometimes and have to be replaced too..

[HontouRakuda]

Hi,

The official position from Red Hawk is to leave this matter to its translators. Scanlation is something far more open than most people think and it is because of that we try to be more creatively open.

With official releases one must get rid of all forms of Japanese in the product. One major goal with official releases is to localize the series into the target language. Make the series easily readable as possible. As triplicate said saying -san or -sama can work against the English flow. With this being said in scanlation we have more freedom. Some translators such as myself like to teach Japanese culture when need be. Things like suffixes can show a depth into the series that English itself cannot display. On the other hand, some translators like to naturalize as much as possible and avoid anything that cannot be conveyed. It is because of this freedom in scanlation that we allow our translators do what they want. If we were an actual company aiming to make money I can assure you that all of the translators here would have been naturalizing from the beginning.

It is the freedom of the internet that allows us to use these different ideas.

[fathskie]

Yeah well I guess I'll just leave it be =/

And "accepting" the fact that highschoolers call each other "Mister"

And there's an "Aoi-sis" while (probably) you'll never heard any American (cmiww) being called something like... "Jane-sis". Come on now. i.e. the series Gossip Girl ? They call Serena just "S" and Blair with "Queen B". None of them received the title "-sis" at the end. Why don't just erase the "Mr" and "sis" and make it whole-ly American-ish? Besides, "Sir" can be used better than "Mr" in many cases.

It's just that I can't shake the feeling that *something* feels really off... seeing I've been growing up for years reading scanlations script with suffix. Though I completely understood the feeling to "naturalized" or "neutralized" the names because our local manga publishers also didn't put the original suffix there. But really -- Asian countries have this degree of "polite-ness" that can't be conveyed to English (seeing that a kid can call their parents "you" in English. Which in Asian countries will be regarded as rude) I'm Indonesian, so I know. We have those suffixes-too (well, kind of).

Oh well.

Anyway I've been enjoying the scanlation ^^ please don't be discourage or offended in any way by this discussion... this shows that we care ^^
Otsukaresama deshita!! Ganbatte, ne!